Christainity Or Atheism?

Jerenz, why does there have to be a god? Maybe the answer or reasoning behind the existence of these things are beyond our comprehension at the moment, even they may never be known. However why does that mean we have to have a god to create all this?

If god creating the universe, and before there was nothing, than how was god existing when he created the universe, and all that existed? Spontaneous generation? By saying there has to be a god, your also saying there has to be a force mightier than god himself to create "god" yet in the christian and other faiths, "god" is almighty, all-powerful, and yet, you say there is a force higher than god?

Logic, my friend.

Bible my friend. You should read it.

Jerenz, why does there have to be a god? Maybe the answer or reasoning behind the existence of these things are beyond our comprehension at the moment, even they may never be known. However why does that mean we have to have a god to create all this?

If god creating the universe, and before there was nothing, than how was god existing when he created the universe, and all that existed? Spontaneous generation? By saying there has to be a god, your also saying there has to be a force mightier than god himself to create \"god\" yet in the christian and other faiths, \"god\" is almighty, all-powerful, and yet, you say there is a force higher than god?

Logic, my friend.

Logic? Here's some logic for you. I find it to be too much of a coincidence that Earth's tilted axis, atmosphere, size, tectonic activity and its distance from the Sun to be too suitable to have been formed by sheer coincidence. If Earth was any closer or further from the Sun than it already is, we wouldn't be here. If we were too close, radiation would burn up most life. e.g Venus. If we were any further, the greenhouse gas effect on Earth would not be efficient enough to allow suitable temperatures for life to be sustained. e.g. Mars. Our distance from our parent star is...well, perfect! As a result, we have millions of species living on our planet, and one specific species is capable of self-awareness, reasoning and logic! Our species has moved on through the ages, adapting new technologies to thrive to what we have today, and possibly to an even brighter future. (Or grim future, whatever you feel is suitable.)

Now, do you honestly feel that Earth and life was created out of sheer coincidence? Was the Sun formed out of sheer coincidence? Was our galaxy formed out of sheer coincidence? Was our entire universe formed out of sheer coincidence? Did science really create all that we have right now?

No, it didn't. Alone, it could not have. Hence proving Einstein's statement: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Buddy, look, if you have ever read the bible, or even gone to church and had a personal relationship with God, Then you would know what you are talking about.

Bible my friend. You should read it.

I have read it. Ap Theology ftw friend.

[quote author=Kyle link=topic=601.msg6108#msg6108 date=1300397995]
Jerenz, why does there have to be a god? Maybe the answer or reasoning behind the existence of these things are beyond our comprehension at the moment, even they may never be known. However why does that mean we have to have a god to create all this?

If god creating the universe, and before there was nothing, than how was god existing when he created the universe, and all that existed? Spontaneous generation? By saying there has to be a god, your also saying there has to be a force mightier than god himself to create \"god\" yet in the christian and other faiths, \"god\" is almighty, all-powerful, and yet, you say there is a force higher than god?

Logic, my friend.

Logic? Here's some logic for you. I find it to be too much of a coincidence that Earth's tilted axis, atmosphere, size, tectonic activity and its distance from the Sun to be too suitable to have been formed by sheer coincidence. If Earth was any closer or further from the Sun than it already is, we wouldn't be here. If we were too close, radiation would burn up most life. e.g Venus. If we were any further, the greenhouse gas effect on Earth would not be efficient enough to allow suitable temperatures for life to be sustained. e.g. Mars. Our distance from our parent star is...well, perfect! As a result, we have millions of species living on our planet, and one specific species is capable of self-awareness, reasoning and logic! Our species has moved on through the ages, adapting new technologies to thrive to what we have today, and possibly to an even brighter future. (Or grim future, whatever you feel is suitable.)

Now, do you honestly feel that Earth and life was created out of sheer coincidence? Was the Sun formed out of sheer coincidence? Was our galaxy formed out of sheer coincidence? Was our entire universe formed out of sheer coincidence? Did science really create all that we have right now?

No, it didn't. Alone, it could not have. Hence proving Einstein's statement: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
[/quote]

Then answer this, without attacking my point of view:

What solid support is there of religion? And no. Obscure insinuations, or assumptions are not considered valid to me. And therefore your post is invalid.

What solid support is there of religion?

What do you mean by solid support of religion? I don't understand the question very well.

And no. Obscure insinuations, or assumptions are not considered valid to me. And therefore your post is invalid.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but that smug statement is very contradictory. The whole issue of religion being a hoax and evolution being the prime creators of life is mere insinuations and/or assumptions too. So if anything, your post would be as invalid as mine if you abide by that.

The theory of evolution was founded by many years of observation by Charles Darwin(who was a firm christian himself.) and has been supported by more modern studies of fossils in the ground, dating back many millions of years. Not insinuations, or assumptions. Observations.

Solid proof of god: irrefutable proof of the existence of a god(s) or deity in it's own right.

You give me blocks of text saying how there IS a god, and how I don't have any proof that there isn't a god. So where is your proof that there is?

The theory of evolution was founded by many years of observation by Charles Darwin(who was a firm christian himself.) and has been supported by more modern studies of fossils in the ground, dating back many millions of years. Not insinuations, or assumptions. Observations.

Solid proof of god: irrefutable proof of the existence of a god(s) or deity in it's own right.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I do believe that evolution was a part of the creation of Earth and the life on it, but I do not think it was the prime factor. Yes, most life on Earth had to have evolved from something, but again, I don't believe that it was done out of sheer coincidence. I believe that some sort of higher power aided the formation of Earth in our solar system to facilitate the creation of life. Is it an assumption? Yes.

But is evolution alone being the creator of the world an assumption? Yes, it is.

Indeed it is. An incorrect one at that, as we know there were other factors, divine, or not that aided the creation.

I would like to bring in a post I just noticed from jerenz:

"Buddy, look, if you have ever read the bible, or even gone to church and had a personal relationship with God, Then you would know what you are talking about."

This is a religious attitude I find quite common among people. Basically this idea of god has created into many of it's believers a (pardon the irony) hollier-than-thou attitude toward people of different faiths, which I not only think is pure ignorance in a golden goblet, but is annoying as heck.

In fact, I believe christianity advocates tolerance, and love among your fellow man. In fact I believe one of your oh-so-precious commandments in the old testament is "Love your neighbor as yourself" but is this attitude not completely contradictory to your believe, Jerenz?

Explain this please.